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> Valve adjustment, Total n00b question. Valve clearances
Scott Bertsch
post Sep 7 2010, 01:37 PM
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I have a 1989 FZR 600 and the dang thing doesn't like to start, I've replaced the battery and I have also done some basic trouble shooting.

Status as of today I have the valve cover off and am trying to measure valve clearances (what a pain) I have the feeler gauges and seems like I can slide them in between the cam and the valve bucket, but should I be able to see the feeler gauge come out the other side of the cam lobe?

I am thinking based on my reading here that the bike is LONG over due for a valve adjustment and some TLC, the issue I run into is I am looking at rebuilding the motor, so I called the local machine shop, they are great machinists and I have only ever taken my single cylinder dirt bikes to them, however they want a FORTUNE to seat new valves, not to mention the stock valves were notoriously soft so does anyone make a replacement kit that isn't?

I love the bike I only paid $600 for it so I hate to see it go by the waste side, however I hesitate to put 1500 or more into it to make it a simple commuter bike during the summers, I can buy another dependable used bike for about that.

So any pointers on where I or what I can do to remedy the valve issues would be great. Any leads on after market valves that are a little less and more durable than the stock ones would be preferred. I love the bike it's a blast to ride, but now I have to work on it to pay for that time of utter joy, and that is not so much fun.

Thanks
Scott


--------------------
1989 FZR 600 got it cheap working on a full restore - Going to be a LONG SLOW process

"The older I get the Faster I was"
"Rider can trump all, suspension or motor"
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kiki231
post Sep 7 2010, 02:19 PM
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Hi Scott
good to see you are tackling the valves yourself. I too have an 89 600. The 600's are prone to tightening on the intake side. Whereas the exhaust valves tend to hold their clearances well.

As far as replacing the valves, its a BIG deal, and i dont think you are there yet -- haha! I think you just need to adjust the ones you have and you should be fine.

Measure all the intakes and all the exhaust, then adjust the ones that are out.

As far as your measuring is concerned, you are doing it correctly, and there is no need to have the gauge come out of the other side of the cam lobe, unless you cannot tell if you are sliding it past the tightest point between the bucket and the lobe.

So just start on the small end of the scale, then work your way up in gauge thicknesses until it wont fit (be very gentle). Go back one size and that is your approximate clearance. You can shortcut and just use the 2 gauges that represented the tightest and loosest acceptable clearances. Out of habit, i tend to work from the inboard side of the cam (over the plugs).

As far as the quality of the valves, yes, there is a lot posted, and i do personally believe that they are softer than they should be, which causes them to "tulip" and sink into the head slightly, and makes your clearances tight, which detracts from the performance and starting characteristics. There are custom shops that will mill you new valves , and some are on line, but i would run the ones you have until they can no longer be adjusted.

I would think that the guys with really bad valve problems are probably more aggressive riders (racers) where they keep these little engines high on the boil for extended periods of time.


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kiki231
post Sep 7 2010, 02:20 PM
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BTW-- you may also want to take a look at your emulsion tubes-- they are NOTORIOUSLY soft, and cause rich mixture issues.


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rotortech
post Sep 7 2010, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (kiki231 @ Sep 7 2010, 04:20 PM) *
BTW-- you may also want to take a look at your emulsion tubes-- they are NOTORIOUSLY soft, and cause rich mixture issues.


Scott,

+1 to what Kiki said about valve adjustment. Your engine still has a lot of life left in it after valve adjustment. If you need any pointers check this link for a detailed explanation VCA link Since you have the valve cover off I think you are way ahead of this but you might like to check it out. It was written for the FZR 400 but the process and the spec clearances are exactly the same.

While you are there you might want to check this link for a good way to organize the data from your measurements Valve Clearance Data Sheet Link

You don't need to see the feeler gauge going all the way through. Just "Feel" it as you go between the cam lobe and the bucket. It is possible to push too hard and force a thicker feeler gauge into the gap. It begins to lift the valve off its seat. Therefore Kiki has advised that you should be firm but gentle while measuring. It is not very difficult to get a precision measurement this way.

Even if your valve clearances are out of spec don't sweat it. Just get some shims and remove the cams (carefully - per the manual) and reset the clearances. The engine will run fine. New valves should only be required when this service has been long overdue.

Kiki also mentioned emulsion tubes and he is right again. This emulsion tube wear is very common in these carbs with as little as 5,000 miles. Keep that in mind if your starting trouble persists after taking care of the valve adjustment.


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Read this first then ask questions:
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1994 Yamaha FZR 600 Purchased as project bike Jan 2010
Finished 10 July 2010 My Build Thread with pictures here.
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reelrazor
post Sep 7 2010, 02:58 PM
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If you need valves,

DONT even think about ordering stock ones.

They run in the 32$ per valve range.

Ferea makes valves for this engine, about triple the quality....$24 a valve



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Scott Bertsch
post Sep 9 2010, 11:03 AM
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QUOTE (kiki231 @ Sep 7 2010, 02:20 PM) *
BTW-- you may also want to take a look at your emulsion tubes-- they are NOTORIOUSLY soft, and cause rich mixture issues.


Thanks that was the VERY first thing I replaced... then the battery as it was producing about 17 volts at 3k.

Like I said did quite a bit of trouble shooting first.


--------------------
1989 FZR 600 got it cheap working on a full restore - Going to be a LONG SLOW process

"The older I get the Faster I was"
"Rider can trump all, suspension or motor"
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Scott Bertsch
post Sep 9 2010, 11:08 AM
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QUOTE (reelrazor @ Sep 7 2010, 02:58 PM) *
If you need valves,

DONT even think about ordering stock ones.

They run in the 32$ per valve range.

Ferea makes valves for this engine, about triple the quality....$24 a valve


Thanks I will look for those....

Like it's being said I am going to work or try for an adjustment first.

Thanks
Scott


--------------------
1989 FZR 600 got it cheap working on a full restore - Going to be a LONG SLOW process

"The older I get the Faster I was"
"Rider can trump all, suspension or motor"
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rotortech
post Sep 9 2010, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE (Scott Bertsch @ Sep 9 2010, 01:03 PM) *
Thanks that was the VERY first thing I replaced... then the battery as it was producing about 17 volts at 3k.

Like I said did quite a bit of trouble shooting first.


Scott,

I got some bad news for you. The battery can't produce 17 volts. It is your voltage regulator (VR) that is malfunctioning. It is not regulating voltage. Upgrade this now or it will continue to damage your electrical system. Read this to get caught up on what to do. VR Wiki Link


--------------------
Read this first then ask questions:
CPR for the FZR

Rotortech
Indianapolis

1994 Yamaha FZR 600 Purchased as project bike Jan 2010
Finished 10 July 2010 My Build Thread with pictures here.
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kiki231
post Sep 9 2010, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE (rotortech @ Sep 9 2010, 03:00 PM) *
Scott,

I got some bad news for you. The battery can't produce 17 volts. It is your voltage regulator (VR) that is malfunctioning. It is not regulating voltage. Upgrade this now or it will continue to damage your electrical system. Read this to get caught up on what to do. VR Wiki Link


Yup-- and boil your battery along side of the rest of the electrical system.

I thank thank the "heavy hitters" here for pointing me to the VR on mine-- and Paul actually sold me a spare he had. the PO on mine had a whole bag of spare light bulbs under the seat, and the battery wasnt stock. I was wondering what the prob was-- then, sure enough, the forum saved me a TON of time.
Thanks again, Kev!!


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fzrbrandon
post Sep 9 2010, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (kiki231 @ Sep 9 2010, 01:29 PM) *
...the PO on mine had a whole bag of spare light bulbs under the seat, and the battery wasnt stock...

Nothing like slapping a band-aid on a flesh wound. Ignorance is bliss... ohmy.gif


--------------------


www.fzrbrandon.com

!!! 400 & 600 PARTS FOR SALE !!!

Current:

'92 FZR600 - white, red, and black, FZR400 3EN2 Deltabox swingarm, Micron exhaust, DJ Stage 1 jets & needles, FP needle jets, K&N filter w/ airbox, '06 - '07 R6 shock, RT springs & emulators, R6 front master cylinder, Galfer SS brake lines, YZF blue dot front calipers, Vortex / RK 520 conversion, YZF/R6 VR/R, Bridgestone BT-014s, Vortex swingarm spools, Zero Gravity windscreen

'90 FZR400 - Yamaha blue - D&D exhaust, Sharkskinz race body, DJ Stage 1 jets & needles, FP needle jets, FP shift kit, EBC clutch springs, Ohlins shock w/ Hyperco spring, RT springs & emulators, JEM Machine fork preload adjusters, RR adjustable dogbones, MK fork brace, Woodcraft clip-ons & rear sets, Galfer SS brake lines, Vortex / RK 520 conversion, YZF/R6 VR/R, Bridgestone BT-014s, Vortex swingarm spools, Zero Gravity windscreen

Future hybrid - Current inventory: '90 FZR400 frame, FZR400 3TJ Deltabox swingarm & wheel, YZF600 forks & wheel, '05 YZF600 motor, Penske shock, FZR600 3HE dual-lamp upper & lower bodywork, YZF600 tank, 1st Gen. R6 tail

Past:

'89 FZR600 - white, red, and blue, V&H SS exhaust, DJ jet kit, Zero Gravity windscreen
***sold in '91 :( ***
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Scott Bertsch
post Sep 9 2010, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE (rotortech @ Sep 9 2010, 12:00 PM) *
Scott,

I got some bad news for you. The battery can't produce 17 volts. It is your voltage regulator (VR) that is malfunctioning. It is not regulating voltage. Upgrade this now or it will continue to damage your electrical system. Read this to get caught up on what to do. VR Wiki Link


Ok so how do I verify that the VR is indeed bad? I am going to measure valve clearances anyway as I am there. The PO of my bike actually tried to charge the battery with a car charger and ruined the previous battery I replaced it.

Thanks
Scott


--------------------
1989 FZR 600 got it cheap working on a full restore - Going to be a LONG SLOW process

"The older I get the Faster I was"
"Rider can trump all, suspension or motor"
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Guest_mawler_*
post Sep 9 2010, 06:29 PM
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The 17 V output verifies the VR is overcharging, and needs replacing ASAP Before it fries you electrics, including boiling your new battery dry, possibly buckling the lead plates = another new battery.
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fzrbrandon
post Sep 9 2010, 07:33 PM
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Yep, exactly what Mawler and Rotortech said. For future reference, there IS a charging system test flowchart pinned at the top of the electrical forum.

This post has been edited by fzrbrandon: Sep 9 2010, 07:34 PM


--------------------


www.fzrbrandon.com

!!! 400 & 600 PARTS FOR SALE !!!

Current:

'92 FZR600 - white, red, and black, FZR400 3EN2 Deltabox swingarm, Micron exhaust, DJ Stage 1 jets & needles, FP needle jets, K&N filter w/ airbox, '06 - '07 R6 shock, RT springs & emulators, R6 front master cylinder, Galfer SS brake lines, YZF blue dot front calipers, Vortex / RK 520 conversion, YZF/R6 VR/R, Bridgestone BT-014s, Vortex swingarm spools, Zero Gravity windscreen

'90 FZR400 - Yamaha blue - D&D exhaust, Sharkskinz race body, DJ Stage 1 jets & needles, FP needle jets, FP shift kit, EBC clutch springs, Ohlins shock w/ Hyperco spring, RT springs & emulators, JEM Machine fork preload adjusters, RR adjustable dogbones, MK fork brace, Woodcraft clip-ons & rear sets, Galfer SS brake lines, Vortex / RK 520 conversion, YZF/R6 VR/R, Bridgestone BT-014s, Vortex swingarm spools, Zero Gravity windscreen

Future hybrid - Current inventory: '90 FZR400 frame, FZR400 3TJ Deltabox swingarm & wheel, YZF600 forks & wheel, '05 YZF600 motor, Penske shock, FZR600 3HE dual-lamp upper & lower bodywork, YZF600 tank, 1st Gen. R6 tail

Past:

'89 FZR600 - white, red, and blue, V&H SS exhaust, DJ jet kit, Zero Gravity windscreen
***sold in '91 :( ***
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Scott Bertsch
post Sep 9 2010, 07:59 PM
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14d 7h 6m 54s




***** UPDATE ********

I measured all the valve clearances tonight with the help from the info given above.

the exhaust as expected all fell in tolerances of .23 mm across the board.

The intakes on the other hand .... well....

starting from the left to right 2 valves per

#1 L=.16 R=.10 #2 L=0 R=.08 #3 L=.03 maybe R=.08 #4 L=.02~ R=.02~

so there is really a problem with the intake... if the shims have NEVER been changed what is generally the size in there. the PO never did much engine work on the bike I am sure.

Tomorrow I am pulling the buckets out and checking shim size, but I want to start calling around. I have a Clymer manual that has a pad adjustment table, just need the original size.

Also with reference to the VR I can't exactly remember what the voltage was but it was higher than expected. Where can I get a new one for a good price?

I am somewhat mechanically inclined, however I am learning as I go so I very much appreciate all of your assistance with my on going project.


--------------------
1989 FZR 600 got it cheap working on a full restore - Going to be a LONG SLOW process

"The older I get the Faster I was"
"Rider can trump all, suspension or motor"
Go to the top of the page
 
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Guest_mawler_*
post Sep 9 2010, 08:28 PM
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Guests








QUOTE (Scott Bertsch @ Sep 10 2010, 02:59 AM) *
***** UPDATE ********

I measured all the valve clearances tonight with the help from the info given above.

the exhaust as expected all fell in tolerances of .23 mm across the board.

The intakes on the other hand .... well....

starting from the left to right 2 valves per

#1 L=.16 R=.10 #2 L=0 R=.08 #3 L=.03 maybe R=.08 #4 L=.02~ R=.02~

so there is really a problem with the intake... if the shims have NEVER been changed what is generally the size in there. the PO never did much engine work on the bike I am sure.

Tomorrow I am pulling the buckets out and checking shim size, but I want to start calling around. I have a Clymer manual that has a pad adjustment table, just need the original size.

Also with reference to the VR I can't exactly remember what the voltage was but it was higher than expected. Where can I get a new one for a good price?

I am somewhat mechanically inclined, however I am learning as I go so I very much appreciate all of your assistance with my on going project.


The VR if you have the old 4 pronger upgrade to the YZF/R6 5 pronged/finned type. RT already gave the wiki link here it it again VR Wiki Link I got mine off ebay

I'm planning to adjust my valve clearances Dec/Jan (never done them before). My research so far (reading others posts), before you remove the cams use cable ties to fasten/secure the timing chain to the camshaft sprockets, that will make the valve timing easier, also read How to adjust your valve clearances by icontender there's a Shimulator to assist in the replacement shim sizes.

I'll be watching this thread with interest, for further pointers help thumbup.gif
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